Should politics be separated from religion

BELOVED OSHO, PRIME MINISTER RAJIV GANDHI IS GOING TO HOLD A NATIONAL DEBATE ON THE NEED FOR SEPARATING POLITICS FROM RELIGION. WE WOULD LOVE TO HEAR YOUR VISION ON THIS QUESTION.

Anand Maitreya, politics is mundane -- the politicians are the servants of the people. Religion is sacred -- it is the guide for people's spiritual growth. Certainly, politics is the lowest as far as values are concerned, and religion the highest as far as values are concerned. They are separate.

Rajiv Gandhi wants religion not to interfere with politics; I want politics not to interfere with religion. The higher has every right to interfere, but the lower has no right.

Religion has been raising human consciousness for centuries. Whatever man is now, whatever little consciousness he has, the whole credit goes to religion. Politics has been a curse, a calamity; and whatever is ugly in humanity, politics is responsible for.

But the problem is that politics has power; religion has only love, peace and the experience of the divine. Politics can easily interfere with religion; and it has been interfering all along, to such an extent that it has destroyed many religious values which are absolutely necessary for the survival of humanity and life on this earth.

Religion has no mundane power like nuclear weapons and atom bombs and guns; its dimension is totally different. Religion is not a will to power; religion is a search for truth, for God. And the very search makes the religious man humble, simple, innocent.

Politics has all the destructive weapons -- religion is absolutely vulnerable. Politics has no heart -- religion is pure heart. It is just like a beautiful roseflower: its beauty, its poetry, its dance makes life worth living, gives life meaning and significance. Politics is like a stone, dead, but the stone can destroy the flower and the flower has no defense. Politics is aggressive.

Rajiv Gandhi is putting things upside down. He wants religion not to interfere with politics. Politics should have the whole monopoly to enslave humanity, to reduce men to slaves, to destroy their freedom, to destroy their consciousness; to convert them into robots so that the politicians can enjoy the power and the domination.

Religion is the only problem for the politicians. It is beyond their reach and beyond their understanding. Religion is the only area where politics should not interfere at all, because religion is the only hope.

Politics, for centuries, has been just killing, destroying people -- the whole history of politics is the history of criminals, murderers. In three thousand years, politicians have created five thousand wars. It seems that inside the politician, the barbarous instinct is very powerful; its only joy is to destroy, to dominate.

Religion creates a problem for it, because religion has given the world its highest peaks of consciousness -- a Gautam Buddha, a Jesus, a Chuang Tzu, a Nanak, a Kabir. These are the very salt of the earth. What has politics given to the world? Genghis Khan? Tamerlane? Nadir Shah? Alexander? Napoleon? Ivan the Terrible? Josef Stalin? Adolf Hitler? Benito Mussolini? Mao Tse-tung? Ronald Reagan? -- these are all criminals. Rather than being in power, they should be behind bars; they are inhuman.

And they are spiritually sick people. The will to power and to dominate arises only in the sick mind. It arises out of the inferiority complex. People who are not suffering from an inferiority complex do not care about power; their whole endeavor is for peace, because the meaning of life can be known only in peace -- power is not the way. Peace, silence, gratitude, meditation -- these are the basic constituents of religion.

Religion cannot be allowed to be dominated by stupid politicians. The situation is as if sick people are trying to dominate the physicians, directing what they should do and what they should not do. Accept it -- the sick people are in the majority, but that does not mean that the physician should be dominated by the majority. The physician can heal the wounds, can cure the sicknesses of humanity. Religion is the physician.

Politicians have done enough harm, and they are leading the whole of humanity towards a global suicide. And still Rajiv Gandhi has the nerve to say that religion should not interfere -- when the whole of life on this planet is in danger! Not only man, but the innocent birds and their songs, the silent trees and their flowers -- everything that is alive.

Politicians have managed to create enough destructive power to destroy life from the earth; and they are continuously piling up more and more nuclear weapons. In fact, three years ago there were enough nuclear weapons to destroy every man seven times, to destroy this whole earth seven times, or to destroy seven earths. A man dies only once; there is no need to accumulate so much destructive power. The whole of politics depends on lies.

Just the other day -- I could not believe that any man who is sane can make such a statement -- Ronald Reagan made a statement. He was denying before the Senate, continually, that any weapons were being given to a few countries. And now investigation has shown that he was lying -- lying for two years continually. Destructive weapons have been given to poor countries -- and not in a small measure, a great lot. Now the facts are there and Ronald Reagan had to make a statement, and the statement he has made, made me laugh -- so ridiculous.

He said, "In my heart, I still know that whatever I said was the truth. But the facts that have been discovered say that it was a lie. I still believe in my heart that I have been speaking the truth." He is accepting the facts, and still, simultaneously, saying, "I still believe in my heart that whatever I was saying was true, although the facts are proving it wrong."

Politicians live on lies; politicians live on promises -- but those promises are never fulfilled. They are the most unqualified people in the world. Their only quality is that they can manage to befool the poor masses -- or, in poor countries, they can purchase their votes. And once they are in power, they forget completely that they are servants of the people; they start behaving as if they are the masters of the people.

What do they know about the inner world of man? What do they know of blissfulness, of godliness? Still, they want religion not to be allowed to interfere with politics. What about them? They should be allowed to interfere with religion? Is the lower going to dominate the higher? Is the mundane going to dominate the sacred? That will be the ultimate misfortune for humanity.

As far as I can see, all politicians should be meditators, should know something of the inner world. They should be more conscious, more compassionate, should know the taste of love. They should know the experience of the silence of existence, and the beauty of this planet, and the gifts of existence. And they should learn to be humble and grateful.

Religion should be the teacher of all the politicians. Unless politicians have something of religiousness, there is no future for humanity. Religion has to interfere with the politicians. Without religion interfering with the politicians... the politicians are blind, they don't have eyes, they are deaf; they don't have a silent mind to listen to the truth.

But why is Rajiv Gandhi concerned that religion and politics should be separated? Politics is a small thing. Religion is man's whole evolution. Politics should be only a minor part of the vastness of religious experience. There is no need for any separation. But the politician, as he is in power, becomes so egoistic that he cannot think of going to those humble, simple, but wise people.

The problems go on increasing; the politicians have proved impotent to solve them. But they will not go to the people who can give them direction, who can give them advice because they have the clarity.

I am not a politician. I have never voted in my life and I am not going to vote -- ever -- because what is the point of choosing between two chimpanzees, just because they are holding different flags? just because they have different symbols? Chimpanzees are chimpanzees.

They need a deep respect for religion, for religious people, because one thing is certain: religious people are not going to fight the elections -- no religious person is going to beg for votes. Basically, he has no desire to fulfill his ego and to cover up his inferiority complex. In his silence, in his peace, in his blissfulness, he has known the ultimate superiority. Now there is nothing more than that, nothing higher than that. He has become a temple; his god is within his being.

The politician lives on war, lives on creating riots, lives on disturbance -- these are his nourishment. Adolf Hitler has written in his autobiography: "Unless you have enemies, you cannot become a great leader. Even if you don't have enemies, create the fiction that your country is in danger, because when people are afraid they are ready to become slaves. When people are afraid they are ready to follow politicians."

Although he was an insane person, once in a while he made statements which are very significant. He has said, "The greatest leaders of humanity are born in times of war." So unless there is a great war, you cannot be a great leader; just to fulfill the desire of being a great leader, you have to kill millions of people.

And he is right: in days of peace, people don't need to follow; people don't make the leader almost a god, so that his word becomes the law.

Politicians try in every way to keep countries afraid. China is gathering nuclear weapons on its boundary with India; Pakistan is gathering armies on its boundary with India -- the Indian politicians go on insisting this is so. In Pakistan, they go on insisting that India is gathering armies on its boundary; in China, they go on insisting that India is preparing nuclear weapons. In the parliaments, they go on saying, "We are not creating anything" -- but that is an absolute lie.

The Chinese leader has to keep the people of China afraid. The Indian leader has to keep the Indian people afraid. The Pakistani leaders have to keep the Pakistani people afraid. In your fear is their power.

The more they make you afraid, the more powerful they are. Outside the country they go on creating fictions, and inside the country they also continue: Hindu and Mohammedan riots, riots between Hindi-speaking and non-Hindi-speaking people. They want you to continue fighting for anything -- any trivial thing. If you are engaged in fighting, they are in power. If you stop fighting, their power disappears. This is an ugly game.

It is one of the duties of religious people to keep themselves above politics and lead the people towards creative values, towards more humanity. In fact, if religions understand one thing -- that the whole of humanity is one, and there is no need for any nations -- all these pygmy politicians will disappear.

But the strangest thing is that politicians go on saying that religion and politics should be separate. Why? Why should truth be separate from politics? And why should love be separate from politics? Why should meditative consciousness be separate from politics? Why should a prayerful heart be separate from politics?

Yes, I understand that it should be separate in the sense that it is higher. And the politician is in need of psychological treatment and spiritual treatment, and he should go to the religious people for advice. That was the situation in ancient India. We have seen those days; those golden days are still alive in memory. There was a time when kings would go to the forest to pay their respects -- to beggars, who had nothing -- and to ask for advice.

Kings used to touch the feet of those who had realized themselves, because even their blessing can transform you. Politics is functional; it is utilitarian. But it has no way of transforming man into higher consciousness. And, particularly in reference to India, it has been such an ugly situation. It hurts.

Mahatma Gandhi used to say, before freedom, that the first president of India would be a woman -- and not only a woman, but she would be a sudra, from the lowest untouchables.

But as freedom came, he forgot all the promises that he had been talking about and the power game started again in the old style. Pandit Jawaharlal Nehru was a brahmin; he was not a woman and he was not a sudra. Again, the brahmin becomes the power, and for forty years, one family of brahmins have been dominating India. They have made it almost their personal dynasty. It is no longer a democracy.

Just look at the facts: What was the hold of Mahatma Gandhi over the Indian people? He was pretending to be religious -- he was not a religious man -- pretending to be a Hindu saint, because Hindus were in the majority and they were going to rule the country. That's why he was insistent that India should remain undivided, because in an undivided India, Hindus will be in power; nobody can take the power from the hands of the Hindus because everybody else is in a minority. Nobody looks at gandhi's politics: he was using even religion for ugly ends.

Doctor Ambedkar wanted a separate vote for the untouchables, and I am in absolute agreement with him for the simple reason that for five thousand years these people have been oppressed, exploited; their whole dignity as human beings had been destroyed -- and they are one-fourth of the Hindu population. And they do the ugliest jobs; they should be respected, they should be honored for that. But on the contrary, even their shadow is untouchable. If the shadow of an untouchable falls on you, you have to take a bath immediately to purify yourself.

Ambedkar was absolutely right to ask for a separate vote for the untouchables so that they could be certain of having one-fourth of the members in parliament. Otherwise, they will never be able to be in the parliament; they will never be able to change the five-thousand-year-old, ugly laws created by Manu.

There are great criminals, but Manu seems to top them all. Adolf Hitler was very respectful of Manu; Friedrich Nietzsche was very respectful of Manu -- not of Gautam Buddha -- and Manu has been a curse to this country. He has taken all humanity from millions of people; they are living like animals.

Ambedkar was absolutely logical and right in saying that they should be given a separate vote, but Gandhi started a fast unto death for Ambedkar to take back his movement; otherwise, Gandhi will not eat until he dies. Now this is absolutely illogical. Because you convince people by fasting, it does not mean that you are right. It is blackmail, it is threatening: "I will commit suicide if you don't agree with me."

Naturally, the whole country was pressurizing Ambedkar: "Take back your movement; otherwise Gandhi's death will prove very dangerous to you and to the untouchables. They will be burned alive. Their villages will be burned; the Hindus will take revenge because the untouchables have killed Gandhi." Ambedkar tried as long as possible, and finally gave up, seeing that perhaps if Gandhi does die.... Although this is no argument.

If I was in Ambedkar's place, I would have told Gandhi, "You can die because your death is not an argument. It is as stupid a story as I have heard."

A very ugly man wanted to marry a beautiful girl -- and he was the age of the girl's father. And he tried the Gandhian methodology: he took his mattress, lay down in front of the house of the girl and declared a fast unto death unless her father agreed to give his daughter in marriage to him. Now everybody was in sympathy with the poor man: "He is dying... what a great lover! We have only heard about these lovers in stories, and he's actually a Majnu, a Farhad, a Mahival."

The father was in great distress; the girl was in great fear. The whole day, the house was crowded and they were shouting: "His death will be dangerous for you. The man is not being violent: he is being nonviolent, a religious man, fasting."

Somebody suggested to the father of the girl, "You go to some old Gandhian to find out what to do."

The Gandhian said, "There is no problem. There is one ugly prostitute, very old.... You just give her a hundred rupees and she also takes her mattress and lies down by the side of the man, saying, `I will fast unto death unless you marry me.'" In the night, the man rolled up his mattress and escaped! These are not arguments....

But Ambedkar was forced to take back his movement, and went to Gandhi with a glass of orange juice to break his fast. This is using religion in the service of politics. No religious man can do that.

The idea of India remaining whole and one was also nothing but politics being used in the service of Hindus, so that Mohammedans or Christians or Jainas or Sikhs will never be able to be in power. Hindus will remain in power -- they are in the majority.

Jinnah, the man who created Pakistan, was not a religious man at all; but he also used religion. He created the movement for Mohammedans to have a separate country; otherwise they could not be in power, ever. Suddenly he became a great Mohammedan, a great religious man. And in the name of religion, it was all politics: neither Mahatma Gandhi was religious nor Muhammadali Jinnah was religious. But both wanted power.

Since then, forty years have passed -- what have the politicians done to this country? When it became independent, the population was only four hundred million. They have not even been able to prevent the population explosion -- which is going to kill the country without any nuclear weapons. Now the population is more than double: nine hundred million people! And by the end of this century, India will have the greatest population in the world. Up to now, it has been China, but China is behaving more scientifically and trying to reduce its population. By the end of this century, one in every four men will be Indian.

And what are the politicians doing? They are afraid to say anything to the people in favor of birth control, in favor of abortion, because their whole interest is not whether this country survives or dies; their interest is that they don't want anybody to be hurt. People have their prejudices, the politicians don't want to touch their prejudices because they need their votes. If they hurt their prejudices, these people are not going to give them their votes.

Only a religious man with a clarity of vision, who does not need the votes of the people, can say the truth. Politicians can only say beautiful lies, consoling lies, just to get your votes. The religious man has nothing to get from you; on the contrary, speaking the truth can be dangerous to his life -- it has always been so. Whenever truth is spoken, the man who has spoken it has been crucified. Politicians need power, not crucifixion. The world needs more religious people who are ready to say the truth even if it means crucifixion. The religious man is not afraid of being crucified, for the simple reason that he knows there is no death. At the most they can destroy his body -- but his consciousness, his soul, his god within, will go on living.

Religion should have a higher status, and religious people should be listened to. Parliament should continually invite religious people to give them some ideas on how to solve the problems of the country, because they themselves seem to be absolutely impotent in solving anything. Problems go on growing. But the ego of the politician wants nobody to be higher than him. But whether you want it or not, the religious person is higher than you. You cannot bring transformation into people's consciousness -- he can.

Certainly, religion should not step down from its sacredness into the trivial matters of politics. So I agree with this point: religion and politics should remain separate. The distance is big. Religion is a star in the sky and the politicians are creatures crawling on the earth. They are separate; there is no question but that they should be separate. But politicians should remember that they are functioning in mundane matters. And that is not the true goal of humanity.

Religious people are making every effort to raise humanity -- its consciousness, its love, its compassion -- to a point where wars become impossible, where politicians cannot deceive people, where their lies and their promises can be exposed. This is not interfering with politics -- this is simply protecting the people from the exploitation of politicians. The separation is already there. Who has given Rajiv Gandhi the idea that religion and politics are not separate?

Politics is something that belongs to the gutters. Religion belongs to the open, clean sky -- just like a bird on the wing, flying across the sun to reach to the very center of existence.

Certainly religious people cannot be participants in politics; but politicians should learn to be humble -- their power should not make them blind. Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely; and all politicians are corrupted by their power. And what power do they have? They can kill you -- their power is the power of a butcher; nothing glorious, respectable.

The religious man has a totally different quality of power. It is in his presence; it is in his great love and reverence for life; it is in his gratitude to existence.

We should not forget that the lower should remain within its own limits. And the wise people of the country should be asked to address the parliament as often as possible on problems which politicians cannot solve -- don't have even the brains to solve.

But Rajiv Gandhi's intentions are totally different. He wants politics to be the only power dominating everybody, religion included, and that religion follow the dictates of the politicians.

I absolutely condemn the idea. Religion cannot follow the dictates of the politicians. Politicians should learn, should listen to the advice of the religious people. The problems are so small that any man of intelligence and good will can easily solve them. But the politician does not want to solve them; he only talks about solving them because his power is dependent on how many problems you have. The more problems you have, the more miserable you are, the more powerful he is.

To the religious consciousness, the more joyful you are, the more loving, the more rejoicing.... He wants your life to be songs and to be a dance. Because that is the only way we should worship the source of life -- with our joy, with our songs and with our dances.